Three years ago, Chez Wu was a lonely student from China who was academically successful, but romantically and financially a failure.
To change his life, he took an ABCs Of Attraction bootcamp and was able to not only date more women, but also marry a beautiful wife and become professionally and financially more successful.
This is his story…
[For privacy reasons, some names have been changed.]
JT Tran: First of all, thank you, Chez, for agreeing to do this interview on being married, and congratulations on your nuptials.
Chez: Thank you, thank you.
JT Tran: Yeah. But, for a quick background, you took the Seattle boot camp like a couple of years ago, right?
“I went with him again, and we started to get really active, and within four short months we did a lot. It was really fun.”
Chez: Yeah, quite a few years ago. I took it, and then I, kind of, went inactive, because I was busy with school, and all that. I was a nerd and everything. So, it’s really busy. And then a year or two later, a friend of mine was really heartbroken, Gareth. I went with him again, and we started to get really active, and within four short months we did a lot. It was really fun.
JT Tran: Yeah, yeah. I remember you bringing your friend, and then the two of you on my boot camp.
Chez: Uh huh, yeah.
JT Tran: Yeah. So, you got pretty active. When you got into pickup, were you looking to get married?
Chez: I wasn’t, initially, well, at the time I was, the first boot camp I was twenty five, and then two years later twenty seven. I thought I could be looking for someone, but before that, I just wanted to you know, take a good look at what are the options out there.
JT Tran: Right, right. I mean, I think that’s important for a lot of guys, because otherwise, when you are coming from a frame of scarcity, when there aren’t enough women you just go for any girl that’s available, even if she’s unattractive, both physically, and personality wise.
Chez: Right, right.
“I saw pictures of your wife. She is pretty smoking hot, man.”
JT Tran: And, just let me say this. I saw pictures of your wife. She is pretty smoking hot, man.
Chez: Yeah, thank you. Thank you.
JT Tran: So, congratulations on that. Even I’m a little bit jealous. She’s like eastern European?
Chez: She’s what?
JT Tran: Is she like eastern European, or what’s her?
Chez: Yeah, she’s from Romania, actually.
JT Tran: Right.
Chez: She’s got that European thing.
JT Tran: I saw your wedding picture, so that was pretty sweet.
Chez: Yeah, thank you.
JT Tran: So, you’re out there, you’re kind of playing the field just to see what your options were. I guess, what’s one big revelation, before we get into the relationships and stuff. What would you say is one big revelation for you, that you learned from the boot camp, that helped change your life, and made you get ready to meet her?
Chez: Well, first of all, I joined this whole boot camp thing, because I, was kind of, had a crush with this girl at school, and I was like “Ok, I’m going to get good at this,” and then I’m going to make sure that if I do take that shot I’m in and everything. But then I started to realize that there are, like, all these type of women out there, and then it’s very intriguing.
“You have that intimate, and spiritual, and physical connection as well.”
And, I’ve always been the type of the romantic kind, like, sure one night stands that’s fun, but, in order for sex to be really good, and everything, you know, very intimate between you and your partner, a relationship, it’s the thing to go for me personally, you know, that while I understand it’s fun, and one night stands are fun and all, yeah, it’s just, it’s never going to be as good as, you know, when you know your partner well, and everything, you know. You have that intimate, and spiritual, and physical connection as well.
So, I’ve always been that type, and I do know a lot of people who are also in that type, just like a friend of mine who is a natural. He’s super good. But then, he’s always after a relationship instead of her. And just like, personal preference, I think. And, I do have, sometimes, as we do have a lot of heart to heart talks, with my friend Daniel, and one of the things that came up for us is that, how do you know a girl is the one?
And, like, sure there’s a lot of good qualities, and bad, and just like, sometimes some things just piss you off, and sometimes you just know that so and so is the one, because, I don’t know. We took a while to like, this is a question that, you know, not many of us will know, like, how do you, you know, tell?
And, it, kind of, boils down to is this person worth it, to go through, because, for sure there’s going to be up and downs. And then, when you’re sure that this is a person that you’re willing to go through a lot of up and down with it’s all about worthy, you know. Is it worth it to go through that with this person?
This person gets pissed off, and this person’s happy, and everything else, you know, because there, obviously you won’t be a perfect match always, you know. It’s hard to find that perfect match. But, if it’s close enough, she’s cool, like, her values are pretty consistent, then yeah, I guess that’s what it boils down to, just the worthiness.
“We get into pick up because we want to find someone to be with, and I think when we’re young, we want to play the field, but as you grow older, the bottom line is that you want to be with somebody over the long term.”
JT Tran: Right, right. Now, that’s an excellent point to make, because, you know, we get into pick up because we want to find someone to be with, and I think when we’re young, we want to play the field, but as you grow older, the bottom line is that you want to be with somebody over the long term.
JT Tran: Because you can’t always be playing the field. But, at the same time, you need to have a certain context when it comes to girls, because, you know, I’m sure you’ve got some friends, you know, Asian guys that will, they’re just desperate for any girlfriend, right?
JT Tran: And it doesn’t matter if she’s worthy, they’re just desperate for that, and then, they’ll end up getting married, or they’ll go to some mail order bride business, and get themselves an Asian village wife, right?
“JT: Would you say would pre boot camp Chez have had a chance with your beautiful wife?
Chez: Most likely not.”
JT Tran: I mean, I suspect that, like, with your wife, you end up choosing her. I mean, there’s a mutual choice, but would you say would pre boot camp Chez have had a chance with your beautiful wife?
Chez: Most likely not.
JT Tran: Like, what was she like? Like, so, you were playing the field, and then this beautiful eastern European girl, you see her you know, what was that situation?
Chez: See, pre boot camp, what happened is, I do have some clothing style, you know, fashion style, and everything, and I am a pretty easy going person. So, what happened is, I think my cultural background really does affect me a lot.
I wasn’t really social savvy, or very outgoing, and everything. I would say I recognized it, when women are attracted to me, and I would recognize it when they’re trying to flirt, or throwing some moves out, and then just waiting for my turn.
“Pre boot camp it was… I don’t know how to come back with something that will make that connection. And before long things get awkward, and everything or, it’s just kind of a train wreck for me.”
But, pre boot camp it was, I just didn’t know, how to… I know they’re trying to do something, but I don’t know how to come back with something that will make that connection. And before long things get awkward, and everything or, it’s just kind of a train wreck for me.
JT Tran: Yeah.
Chez: Before boot camp.
JT Tran: Yeah, so, with the boot camp, I mean, you understood the structure of the game. You understood what the courtship was.
Chez: The psychology of women,
JT Tran: Yeah.
Chez: Basically. I actually got a few friends that I want to refer them to the boot camp, because, honestly, one thing that I forgot to tell you is that, before the boot camp, I studied, because I’m really interested in psychology in general, and before that I studied psychology in school, and everything. I read some books about attraction, and pick up. I listened to some CD’s, seminars, and stuff.
“I just never took the action part. I did the thinking part, the intellectual part, but I never took any action to it.”
I’ve never been to one of these [bootcamps], where it’s like “Ok guys, you get ready, go do it.” I just never took the action part. I did the thinking part, the intellectual part, but I never took any action to it.
If anything, it would be more subtle, like the passive value that you talked about, you know, adjust this and that, something you could do yourself, like something a typical Asian would probably do, like just work on yourself a little, but then, not really put yourself out there.
JT Tran: Yeah, low risk, kind of, action.
“One thing that the boot [camp] had really helped me, is you guys have to do it, you guys are here, you guys are actually in the scene of the venue, you guys have to do it.”
Chez: Yeah, exactly, low risk. So then I, one thing that the boot [camp] had really helped me, is you guys have to do it, you guys are here, you guys are actually in the scene of the venue, you guys have to do it.
JT Tran: Yeah.
Chez: And, it’s like taking that action, you know.
JT Tran: Yeah, it’s like, go big or go home. Right.
Chez: Yeah, yeah, that’s exactly.
JT Tran: That’s cool.
Chez: Well, that changed everything.
JT Tran: Yeah. Alright, great stuff. Alright so, like I said, you’re out there, you’re like sarging, and having some fun. How did you meet Sarah?
Chez: I met her because I was just having fun with my friends, honestly. I was just going around the club, and dancing with my friends, and some people, and chatting around, and then I came across Sarah, who was I thought she dressed really cute that day.
“I didn’t really care what would go after that, but I just complimented her because I thought she deserved it.”
And then, I just made a comment, because I thought she deserved it, you know. She took the time to dress up, the makeup and it was really cute. And I didn’t really care what would go after that, but I just complimented her because I thought she deserved it.
JT Tran: Right.
Chez: And then afterward, I hadn’t seen her all night and then after the night ended, we were outside just chilling, and she and her friends came back in to use the restroom and then that’s when I spotted her again and I started talking to her. And it just went very natural.
JT Tran: Yeah.
Chez: And I told her I had seen her in the club, just like Hello, you know, and we started to talk.
JT Tran: Right. So, this was a cold approach then? It was completely cold?
JT Tran: Alright. And you went with what, you know, we call like a direct approach. You complimented her on her fashion and then.
“You basically re-approached her because you weren’t one of those weird pickup artist’s guys that were just like machine gunning down every girl and everyone hates you.”
JT Tran: And then you basically re-approached her because you weren’t one of those weird pickup artist’s guys that were just like machine gunning down every girl and everyone hates you, and so you can’t socialize like a normal person?
Chez: Yeah, right.
“Had she ever dated an Asian guy?”
JT Tran: So you were able to re-approach her, and I mean, I’m just curious, because she’s European, had she ever been with an Asian guy? Had she ever dated an Asian guy?
Chez: She did. She has actually been with Korean guys before.
JT Tran: Ok. So, she has had that experience before.
JT Tran: Experience before. Alright. The majority of white girls I’ve ever dated have never been with an Asian guy. So, that’s good. And then you got her number and then you asked her on a date.
Chez: Right. By now I’d found out that she’s really cool. So we hung out for a little while. At first, you know, I wasn’t sure just because I just met someone new. And then, eventually you have so much fun that it’s like inseparable.
JT Tran: Right. So you’re just having fun. Was there any point in time where you sort of felt intimidated by her beauty or just like her background or were you just cool right from the beginning? You guys were peas in a pod?
“I felt she showed a lot of interest.”
Chez: I felt she showed a lot of interest. So that was fairly easy for me. Her background, let’s see if I ever felt anything. I probably haven’t. Yeah, I haven’t felt anything that’s weird, you know.
JT Tran: Right, right. I guess what I mean is like, you know, because she’s European, did you ever feel like there was kind of a cultural conflict or?
Chez: Cultural conflict? Actually, in some, we talked about it sometimes, like for New Year’s tradition or Christmas tradition, like holiday traditions in general or how people get married and everything.
And actually it seems quite strangely alike, I’m Taiwanese, it actually seems like strangely similar, you know, so that just like some sets of values and beliefs, actually they’re kind of similar if you just talked about it. There’s some minor differences, like, we do this, this way, and you do that, that way. It’s all workable.
JT Tran: Right, right. So, you know, you guys started dating. At one point did it kind of go from a casual date, like a girl that you picked up at a club that you’ve done multiple times before, to something that you knew was going somewhere?
“We spent enough time together and then I felt, you know, this could be someone I could enjoy most of my time with”
Chez: I guess it was just a matter of time we spent together. We spent enough time together and then I felt, you know, this could be someone I could enjoy most of my time with, you know. She’s really supportive of what I do and I’m supportive of what she does. We have a lot of common interest still. That just naturally went from like a casual to serious through time.
JT Tran: Ok.
Chez: It really takes some time to, like, you know, get to know a person and that just naturally, you know.
JT Tran: Right.
Chez: You know, invested.
“You know when William met his future wife, Winnie, he knew. I mean he didn’t know that was going to be his wife, but he knew that this was wifey material.”
JT Tran: Right. You know when William met his future wife, Winnie, he knew. I mean he didn’t know that was going to be his wife, but he knew that this was wifey material and, and, you know…so he made a conscious decision not to, I guess, press too hard in the beginning, right. Because he played like a more slow burn game instead of trying to may be like make out with her and sleep with her like the first like couple of dates.
You know, when you met Sarah, did you think that this was potentially serious, and if it was serious in your mind, did you kind of like play it like the long-term or were you kind of taking it slow with her or what did you do?
Chez: I don’t know. I kind of think I just kind of took the uniform approach, just to get to know a person in general. I didn’t really do anything different to how I wanted to attract her because we were both pretty like casual.
“In the beginning, we all have some kind of like moves planned out, but in this case, at that stage, I was just kind of casual. You really, honestly trying to get to know this person.”
In the beginning, we all have some kind of like moves planned out, but in this case, at that stage, I was just kind of casual. You really, honestly trying to get to know this person. So, I didn’t really have anything planned out. Except, I think that, that honesty just kind of conveys, you know, that I just want to know you, you’re pretty cool.
JT Tran: Right, it’s being congruent and authentic with who you are…
JT Tran: …and what your identity, like your core alignment.
JT Tran: So, you know, now you’re dating. Did at some point you’re like hey, you know, I really more than just like you. I want to be serious and in a monogamous relationship.
What was that like, to go from, you know, a carefree Asian guy that went from pre- boot camp to boot camp mode, now you’re picking up a lot of girls, to dating, and now you want to be really serious? Like what happened there?
Chez: From casual to like want…you mean like how my mind shift from like…
JT Tran: Yeah, from like casual…
Chez: To serious.
JT Tran: …To I just want to date you, you know, and how did that go about? Did it just sort of like evolve unconsciously and like all of a sudden like you two were the only ones seeing each other?
Chez: Yeah, sort of. I guess because I was getting older and I’m like…I don’t know if you remember Sam Wong who I first took the boot camp with. Anyway, I kind of talked to Sam and you know that guy’s really successful in what he does and we kind of talked about long-term successes.
“I came into the boot camp trying to obtain a skill, and this would be a good part of my tools, but then I kind of got this part settled and I just wanted to move on into the more successful life.”
I came into the boot camp trying to obtain a skill, and this would be a good part of my tools, but then I kind of got this part settled and I just wanted to move on into the more successful life. He kind of inspired me into that. Just like having your woman, your job, your lifestyle, and everything…
JT Tran: Yeah, being the complete package, right?
“I wanted to move towards a more well rounded success, I got the dating life handled, and then I want to get the career going.”
Chez: Yeah, yeah, yeah! So I wanted to move towards a more well rounded success, I got the dating life handled, and then I want to get the career going, and then this still works with her.
JT Tran: Yeah, so you got serious. I mean could you name me some of a couple of things about Sarah that’s just amazing about her? Like what separates her from like all the other girls that you’ve dated?
Chez: She takes the time to listen…
JT Tran: She’s a good listener.
Chez: I don’t know how it comes across to her, but I would give these speech about so and so motivational speaker says this and that, blah, blah, blah, but whatever. I could be talking about martial art or whatever, and then she really…
I feel like she really takes the time to listen, and that’s like a hallmark of a good communicator, you know. They will like take the time to understand you, which is quite special for me.
Whereas, especially with some girls I’ve dated in the past, they always talked about themselves orif you’re talking about something that they’re not interested, they’ll don’t take as much, you know, time or like attention to detail, you know…
“We all kind of have this impression that girls at the club or bar are sort of superficial, but here you actually met someone that was she was significantly deeper than that.”
JT Tran: Sure, I mean, this is especially true if you meet a girl at the club, we all kind of have this impression that girls at the club or bar are sort of superficial, but here you actually met someone that was she was significantly deeper than that.
Chez: Yeah. So, it is in a way, kind of like, a wife material, you know. If it works, you run into things interesting or bad, she just listens, and give you advice, and she is genuinely curious about it, you know. So then which is like pretty, I would say pretty inviting when you, you know, after a hard day of work or whatever, you know.
JT Tran: That’s cool. You know, that’s really good to have someone that you can essentially share your life with…
JT Tran: …Your thoughts with. Because that’s what listening and communicating is, is you’re sharing of yourself…so that’s…
“I just felt that’s a really important quality for a wife material, to be able to understand and discuss with you about stuff.”
Chez: I just felt that’s a really important quality for a wife material, to be able to understand and discuss with you about stuff, and then, obviously, you’re going to run into some difficult decisions, in the future, where you need more than just yourself to think about, you know?
JT Tran: Yeah. Were there any challenges that you faced when it came to dating her?
“She gets a little feisty sometimes.”
Chez: Yeah, there were some challenges. I guess this has something to do with her cultural background. Sometimes I do feel she gets a little feisty at me, sometimes with a family member, she gets a little feisty sometimes. We work it out. When that happens, we get a time out, or I’ll talk to you about this problem later, and then later we’ll pick it right back up. That’s the main source of the challenges, the feistiness, basically.
JT Tran: Well, she’s a redhead, right?
Chez: No, actually, that’s how she makes her fashion her style, but, she’s actually a brunette.
JT Tran: Oh, ok. Now, in the pictures, she looked like a redhead.
Chez: Yeah, she dyed her hair red.
JT Tran: Ok.
Chez: It suits her.
JT Tran: So, she’s feisty. Do you find yourself having to adjust to dating her? Because, I know that for some girls, they find Asian guys, we lack the ability to communicate our feelings. We’re kind of passive aggressive. I know that one of the things that you said was that, being honest, is you find yourself having to speak up or anything like that.
“Sometimes she’ll think that it’s a little inactive, and she’ll want me to do something else instead, and we get some kind of conflict there.”
Chez: Adjustments. You see, I am a little bit stubborn about, like, if I’m right, I really don’t have to explain too much. And, sometimes I would insist on my way of doing things. For example, if so and so does something that I don’t like, and I took the approach, and I think it’s appropriate. I took the more laid back approach, and then I talk about the problem afterwards. And, sometimes she’ll think that it’s a little inactive, and she’ll want me to do something else instead, and we get some kind of conflict there, sometimes.
She insists for me to do something a certain way, and sometimes we’ll discuss about something and her feistiness kicks in, and I don’t know if it is a habit of her family. She’ll try to insult me, and that gets kind of like, you’re throwing the anger into the problem instead of being focused on the problem itself.
Then try and insult me, like, you’re being too soft, but then I have to take the time to explain to her that I think it has something to do with my culture too, to like hold back and think about the problem, being calculated before you put out an answer, before you do something. And, we do get that conflict a lot.
JT Tran: Well, you know what they say. Whenever a girl talks about their day, and talks about their problems, as a man, especially for those of us who are, more like, left brain, and we’re very analytical. We want to solve the problem.
“But women, they don’t talk about their problems to solve the problem, they talk about their problems to talk about their emotions that they have about their problems.”
But women, they don’t talk about their problems to solve the problem, they talk about their problems to talk about their emotions that they have about their problems. I run into this all the time because, like you, I tend to be very logical. That just comes from my background.
And yeah, part of it is being Asian, but the other part is, like, I’m an engineer by training. I solve problems. But, when it comes to girls, I always re-discover this in relationships, is they’re not looking to solve the problem. They just want to talk about how they feel about the problem.
Chez: Right. In some ways, it leans towards emotion and how she feels about the problem, instead of what the problem is.
JT Tran: They wanted to talk about how we feel about it, how do we process it, as opposed to solving the problem itself, because I think it’s understood that the problem will solve itself.
Really quickly, I’m just curious. Did you ever talk to Sarah, your wife, about the ABCs and me? Did that ever come up?
Chez: Could you repeat that again?
JT Tran: Taking a step back, did the ABCs of Attraction, and me, ever come up, the fact that you actually studied dating psychology?
“She’s just really glad that I took the [boot] camp.”
Chez: Yeah, I definitely talked to her about it, and she thought it was very interesting. I talk about these men and women issues, and the society situations For example, the women’s movement, the feminists and all these others, and she’s really interested in that too. Well, we talk about it all the time. And then, she’s just really glad that I took the [boot] camp.
JT Tran: So, she actually knows about me.
Chez: Yeah, she knows. I told her all about you, just because it’s interesting. It’s part of human psychology, and interaction, and I’m really open to her about that. I just told her everything, and what I’ve learned, and then, what this and that actually would make a woman feel. She’s really interested in that.
JT Tran: So her reaction was that she was actually kind of curious about it then. It was kind of obvious, actually.
JT Tran: That’s good.
Chez: It’s all positive if you just tell her the whole thing, honestly. “Seriously, I didn’t know what to do, and this is what I learned, and this is why it works, and this is what makes you attracted to me.”
JT Tran: Was she surprised that you took it? Did she, sort of, assume that you’re just this naturally confident guy?
“It’s hard for her to make that connection, that I was, kind of, Emo before.”
Chez: Yeah, she was actually kind of surprised, I think, because she said how I came across to her, at first, when we met. It’s hard for her to make that connection, that I was, kind of, Emo before.
JT Tran: The pre-boot camp Chez.
Chez: The pre-boot camp me was Emo before. I was kind of shy, and this and that, because even at the wedding, we did our speech, and we did our little dance and performance, and everything. I came across as super outgoing, and a lot of distant family members who have not seen me in a long time, they’re kind of shocked at who I became afterward. She of explains how they probably didn’t quite adjust to who I am right now, like how I am, just because there’s such a drastic change.
JT Tran: Yeah. I remember when I officiated William’s wedding in New York, which is one of the biggest honors that I’ve ever had, and it was just very interesting because he had, obviously, people from all over, and people from his past were just completely shocked at who he was now.
There was this pretty big disconnect, because they remember the kid in high school who was really shy, and they didn’t know the man that was here getting married in front of them. So, it’s a journey that we take, and that you’ve taken. So, at some point, you decided that she’s the one. How do you know that she was the one, and how did you go about planning your proposal, or if it was a big proposal, or if you just, kind of, did it off the cuff?
Chez: I didn’t know how my family would take this, and they’re really traditional, and didn’t know how they would take this. I kept it low profile for a long time.
“You didn’t think they would accept an inter-racial relationship?”
JT Tran: You didn’t think they would accept an inter-racial relationship?
Chez: Yeah, I didn’t think they would.
JT Tran: Well, that’s typical of Asian parents. I think everybody knows that Asian parents are a little bit racist.
Chez: Yeah, I think what they’re worrying about how your kids are going to, which culture your kids are going to end up choosing. I think that worries most Asian parents.
“My older sister actually marries an American guy, a Caucasian guy.”
And then I just, for a long time, kept all of my relationship status away from my parents, and then eventually they got curious, and I talked to my sister about it. And then, my older sister actually marries an American guy, a Caucasian guy.
JT Tran: Well, that’s kind of typical in America.
Chez: Yeah, that is.
JT Tran: Yeah. They, kind of, expect their Asian daughters to get married to a white guy, while, Asian guys have got to get married to an Asian girl to carry on the family legacy.
Chez: Right, because to me that is a start. They, kind of, accepted that, that it is a possibility. I talked to my sister about it. My sister was supportive. And then, July 4th, I invited her over.
“The first thing I taught her was how to greet my parents, so, that I think she made a really good impression, that first day.”
And then, the first thing I taught her was how to greet my parents, so, that I think she made a really good impression, that first day. That just opens up the possibilities, versus what they think.
The stereotypical thoughts that most Asian parents would have is that, “Oh, they wouldn’t understand our culture. They’ll be impolite, and do this to offend us,” and I kind of just prepped her for that, and it just got off on a pretty good leg, you know, got off on the right foot.
JT Tran: Ok, so you taught her about your culture, and how important being Chinese, or being Taiwanese, was to you. I think that’s definitely something that I do with girlfriends, because we live in America, so we have to be American, so that’s just part of who we are.
“I always try to make a point of introducing my culture to her, whether its food, or a little bit of language, or just a little bit of history, because you want them to understand you, and though we are American, we’re also Asian American.”
But I always try to make a point of introducing my culture to her, whether its food, or a little bit of language, or just a little bit of history, because you want them to understand you, and though we are American, we’re also Asian American.
I think that’s important. So, you did the parental thing, and she passed with the parents. So when did you decide to propose? What was that thought process?
Chez: Yeah, right after that, they started to accept her more. And then, there’s another project where my dad is hoping for me to join him in his business, you know, hoping for me to grow up and build a family.
“My mom just called me and said ‘You and Sarah seem to get along really well. What do you think about her? How serious are you about her?’ “
My mom just called me and said “You and Sarah seem to get along really well. What do you think about her? How serious are you about her?”
And I thought about it, and we’re pretty serious. And also, there’s this other side where I talk to Sam like, the truth assess and lifestyle. So then, I was like, I could really do this with this girl.
That’s when I decided it, and we just talked about it. Since I live in California, and at the time, Sarah and I stayed in Seattle, it is a big move in our lives, coming down here. So then, I didn’t really do it as a surprise. I talked to her about it. It’s like, here’s the thing. I have this obligation to my family, and to our future. We just discussed it, having to move down here. We took the constructive approach to talking about this, and that’s how it led to the marriage.
“She has to give up everything, her friends, if she’s going to school, her job, to come with you.”
JT Tran: Yeah, because, her moving states is essentially uprooting her life. I mean, it’s like the equivalent of a proposal, if not so formal, because she has to give up everything, her friends, if she’s going to school, her job, to come with you.
Chez: Right, her whole life is up there.
JT Tran: Yeah. So, she agrees to move down with you, and at some point you said, “Lets get married and make this official,” right?
JT Tran: So, what was that process of just holding an Asian and Caucasian wedding, because in your wedding photos you have both? We’re your typical couple, and then in one picture, I think, she’s wearing a more Asiany style.
Chez: Yeah, qipao, the traditional qipao.
JT Tran: Right. So, you kind of had a fusion wedding, right?
“This isn’t exactly a Romanian wedding, or a Taiwanese wedding. But we just did the American thing.”
Chez: Yeah, we just did the American thing. This isn’t exactly a Romanian wedding, or a Taiwanese wedding. But we just did the American thing, which my sister also did, except we wanted to add to that. We wanted to show her willingness to embrace a culture. That’s why we decided to have her wear the qipao, the traditional dress for the Chinese and Taiwanese.
JT Tran: I was thinking that whenever a white girl wears a, in Vietnamese we have a version called the ao dai, and I just think girl next door, because it’s so classic, and elegant, and beautiful. Because, whether she’s white or Asian, you see, girls are wearing this beautiful girl next door, so that’s great.
JT Tran: So you get married. Did your friends get jealous, like your Asian friends? How did they react to you getting married, especially to a white girl?
Chez: I’ve actually never talked to them about it, but most of my Seattle friends who are Asian, most of them actually date white girls. So that came across as like pretty natural. Two of my best friends up there, they date Caucasian girls.
“Joseph is one of the alumni that we took the boot camp with. He’s also dating a girl that he’s really serious with, and he told me that it really inspires him, and that he wants to get serious with his girl.”
And Joseph; he also came to my wedding. Joseph is one of the alumni that we took the boot camp with. He’s also dating a girl that he’s really serious with, and he told me that it really inspires him, and that he wants to get serious with his girl. They’re making some changes to their life too.
JT Tran: Cool. So now that you’re married, how’s married life, especially as an interracial couple? How’s that? How is it being married, going from playing the field, to dating, to now married? How’s that lifestyle?
Chez: You know, of course, when you watch some shows, about young adulthood life, you kind of miss that time. But, I don’t feel like a lot of it has changed, because being husband and wife versus girlfriend and boyfriend, it’s kind of natural to me. I don’t know how to compare it.
“She’s searching for Chinese classes to take so she can communicate with my family better. So, I’m really happy.”
I’ve never been married to an Asian woman before, so I can’t really compare. But as far as that goes, everything’s all pretty natural, and she’s searching for Chinese classes to take so she can communicate with my family better. So, I’m really happy.
JT Tran: Cool. So, you move to California, and you’re married. You didn’t really feel like you had to make a lot of adjustments? It just, kind of, fell into place?
Chez: She has some adjustments to make, mainly because we live in Rowland Heights, where it’s an Asian populated place, and it’s like a giant Chinatown. She has some adjustments to make, but for me, I lived here my whole life, and it’s like my personality before was very Asian oriented. It was, for me, a cultural shock, when I went up to Seattle for college, and I embraced it. I liked the diversity.
But down here, I would say that fifty to sixty percent are Asian. That, I think, is a bigger adjustment for her. As for me, I needed to show her how they do things around here. Other than that, it’s more of an adjustment for her.
JT Tran: I got you. I mean, part of that is, like, as a minority ourselves, we’re always the minority, even if you live in Hawaii, which is Asian dominated, you know that in the United States, the majority is Caucasian, and the culture is Caucasian, when you’re looking at TV shows.
So, when a Caucasian person is put on the first time, where they’re truly a minority, it is a culture shock, because that’s not something that they’re used to, while we, kind of, understand it. So, we’re used to it already. Ok.
So, through your journey, would you say that learning pick up, learning psychology, and taking the ABCs Of Attraction, did that help you get ready to get married?
Chez: Yes, I definitely think it really changes, not my life only, but also my personality. It’s just like, I felt my whole life, I was very toned down, and not really expressing who I am, who I want to be, or my expressions are, whatever I want to express in general. It’s just hard for me. I was kind of uptight my whole life. Just go with the whole Asian thing where everything is very subtle.
“Well pick up really helped me in, for example, job interviews too. It’s all about how you present yourself, and then how you express yourself, really, like what Bruce Lee said, you know, to express yourself honestly.”
Well pick up really helped me in, for example, job interviews too. It’s all about how you present yourself, and then how you express yourself, really, like what Bruce Lee said, you know, to express yourself honestly.
For awhile I was working for Infinity, the car dealership, because I went through this career fair. I was talking to these people, and then one of the recruiters said, “I don’t have a job opening for this or that, however, would you like to sell cars?”, and, “You seem like someone who is really presentable, and personable. I think you would do really great in selling cars”, and that’s what got me into this whole thing.
“That really points me towards the direction that, hey, I arrived at who I want to be, and I’m enjoying every part of my life a lot more now because of that.”
And, that gave me some encouragement, because the fact that I came across to her as really, she said “You’re really attractive. You’re really friendly.” That really points me towards the direction that, hey, I arrived at who I want to be, and I’m enjoying every part of my life a lot more now because of that, being able to present myself.
JT Tran: Yeah. Well, I tell students that no one can see your heart, and no one can see your soul. So you have to present. You have to be genuine and authentic with yourself, and you have to present that to the world, because no one can see inside of you.
“If we have all these layers of social conditioning that makes us be passive, or make us be afraid of expressing ourselves, then we’re not being authentic. We’re just censoring our reality, in what we say and what we do, to conform to other people, instead of being honest.”
And, if we have all these layers of social conditioning that makes us be passive, or make us be afraid of expressing ourselves, then we’re not being authentic. We’re just censoring our reality, in what we say and what we do, to conform to other people, instead of being honest. So, in your case, you can use what you learned to get jobs, or even to get married to a beautiful and wonderful wife.
So, I guess, in closing, do you have any last tidbits or advice from your journey to anyone that might be reading or listening. Some younger version of you, if you can remember a pre-boot camp version of you, who’s a little bit lost, and maybe wants to go out dating, and then maybe one day, to get a wife.
What would you say to a younger version of you?
Chez: I would say that time is changing, and especially for Asians who really culturally embrace the stoicness. We always embrace to have something to be proud of, like really strong, to be stoic, because you might have a lot of pressure, but then inside you work hard and this and that, but honestly, that is something to embrace, in like your work, and everything.
“You can’t just hold everything in.”
But in terms of having to communicate with in a social world, you can’t just hold everything in. You have to change your ways too, because with you being a human being, we live in a community where we have to communicate. You have to communicate at a level where it’s understood by others, so you really have to change your ways.
Learn the proper way to communicate with people, and especially when you’re young, go shop around. Learn Pick-Up early, and then really go out and see who you like. Your dream girl might not be who you want, who you thought it was two years ago, or one year ago.
Then it’s like, it always turns out different when you see a true attraction, or when you see the one, you will know that, because you’ve shopped around, you can compare.
JT Tran: It’s true attraction based off of choice, as opposed to coming from a place of desperation.
Chez: Right, exactly. You have to know all of the, run all the gamut, know what’s out there, and then really evaluate what you thought was good, and whether it really is good. Then just go out there and find the one.
JT Tran: Ok, that’s great. I’m definitely very proud of your journey,
Chez: Thank you.
JT Tran: And thank you so much for consenting to this interview, because I know a lot of guys are going through, and have gone through, and will go through, a very similar journey as yours, because we have the guys that are a little bit lost, and then they take the boot camp, and then they’ll be playing the field, and that’s fun but it’s not for everybody.
And, for the majority of our guys, especially our ABC students, they want to have a quality girlfriend, and from there getting married, and you’ve done exactly that. So, congratulations.
“Yeah, I’m grateful for the community.”
Chez: Thank you so much. Yeah, I’m grateful for the community.
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