Direct vs. In-direct Game or Combo?

Hi, I've noticed lately that my indirect approaches are not getting anywhere. Some convos are good some are bad, but no matter what, whenever I indirect approach, the girl is always a little taken aback when I ask for the #/date. Thus, I've decided to go with direct from now on. I'm a little nervous but it seems like to only when I can get my intent across and not "waste time" anymore. Wanted to get your opinion on direct vs. indirect in your own experiences. Also, how about a mixture of both- I was thinking start of indirect- convo starter or just to gauge her interest/response reaction then go direct. what you guys think? thanks for the help.

That's exactly what the ABCs model is.

(A) Approach -----> Run your indirect opener -----> (B) Make her laugh and get some sort of emotional response -----> Run compliance test -----> (C) Find a way to sit down with her and build a genuine connection -----> Run more compliance test-----> Talk about activities you like to do and potential date -----> Run another compliance test -----> (D) Go direct.

I almost always just go direct. The rejection rate is much higher but like you said, you don't waste time. Besides, sometimes there will be girls who just wont be into you from the beginning. Going indirect just stretches out the time spent with her. It sucks wasting that time on a girl and things go nowhere. That's why I like going direct.

From my personal experience and watching others, it is indeed easy to take the conversation nowhere if the girl likes you especially when going indirect. That's why you should be aware of how many CTs she passed and how big of a CT you gave her. The bigger the CT, the more likely she is into you. Think of your CTs as a ladder, start small and gradually make it greater. If you stay too long in C, you can eventually lose her interest.

For you, if you want to improve your indirect game, my recommendation would be to start throwing in date ideas in the C-phase but don't go direct yet. Plant a seed in her head about the fun things you guys can do together. For instance, something I used to do and tell girls was that I liked to take a salsa dancing class twice a week (true story) and I would tell her that it was fun and that she should join me sometime. Continue running more comfort game after that and build more of a connection. When she passes a third compliance test, go direct on her. Bring back the idea of the activity you guys should do and get the number.

Before I post what works for me, which could very well be a failure for others, why not post some specific examples of what you use so you can possibly get feedback on those indirect openers? Perhaps you're just not wording them right? Or maybe your delivery is a little off? Indirect openers have yielded me plenty of great results. But I wanna hear what you're using.

Thanks for the concern man-

I usually go for observational type things- comment on their clothes, what kind of day/traffic/checkout line, etc is happening in that moment to not make it seem canned. Then I'll just end up talking in circles. That's where I fail to go direct at times. But like I said, when I do finally go direct, they seem surprised. Maybe it's a personal situation but with me, if I go indirect, it comes off too friendly or casual perhaps. I figured if I go str8 direct they can give me a yes or no attraction answer and save me time and effort. I know this has pros and cons so any advice is good. Thanks.

I personally never go for observational (what's happening around us) unless it's something that cannot be ignored, like a car accident or an owner getting humped by their dog in the park. Otherwise, things like traffic or weather are so cliche that most women will brush it off.

Her clothes is usually more direct. "I love your shirt, where did you get it?" I make my interest known.

Indirect openers, like Opinion Openers, are terrific for me. As long as they present some controversy that is relationship-related, the target(s) usually eat it up like candy.

This is something we really need clarification on. When I hear “direct” I interpret it as meaning you “open” direct. For example: “You have beautiful eyes.” Or “ You look fun --- Let me introduce my self.” etc. where you open showing interest. The way I (mis) interpreted was that if you open in such a “ballsy” and “confident” manner is that it is supposed to boost your value somehow.

The reaction I usually got from it was just some polite laughs but it just quickly fades before two minutes.

The way I interpreted the ABC model was that you “open” direct (hence the term “direct”)…the issue I have with that is that it would force the girl to decide based on initial appearance to accept or reject…and in most cases they would politely reject. The only way a direct “opener” would work is if it is CLEAR that you are at least of equal(or greater) value than she is.

So just to be clear --- “Direct” means in the D phase – it does NOT mean to “open” directly??

In my example of an indirect ABCs model, yes, D is direct.

When I said I almost always go direct, I meant to say I almost always open directly.

Are you referring to day-game?

In night game where I'm at -- I usually hang with a couple of buddies (I shouldn't even call them "wings" since they aren't community members) and in some of the pubs there might only be 2 to 4 HBs and you have hours to spend there.

Also consider two scenarios (night game) and assuming you have time:

Scenario 1: You open direct with something like "You're pretty -- you look like you are having a great Time..." etc.

Scenario 2: You open with a DHV BEFORE going direct. Example: say you walk in with 3 women -- then introduce yourself to a set with something indirect like "Are you guys with with the Medical Students get-together?" They'll probably say No then you move on. Come back a few minutes later then go "You're pretty -- you look like you are having a great Time..." etc.

In other words --- demonstrate some value (even if takes only a few sentences or seconds) before going direct if you want to fast track it. If you are with buddies at a bar chances are you have a couple of hours.

I would think Scenario 2 would work better. Unlike day-game -- you have have hours you might be at the bar with your friends so there is no rush.

I'm referring to both.

BTW, I still go indirect once in awhile. I'm not saying direct is better because both are VERY effective. It just depends on the person and what works for him. Everyone is different. Someone with higher passive value MAY have better success with going direct. Someone who's great at entertaining, or funny, etc. MAY have better success with indirect. Whatever.

If indirect works for THIS man, fantastic. If direct works for THAT man, cool beans. lol. Thats what's great about ABCs of Attraction. We teach you the different methods that work and YOU find what works best for you.

Yes, coming in a club pre-selected will work. Of course it will. DHVing yourself then showing direct interest will work too. Sure.

However, here are some things to keep in mind when I go direct... it works for me because...

1. I'm not outcome oriented. My mentality is "if I get the girl, great. If I don't, I move on".

2. I'm always genuine. In other words, I really DO think the woman is stunning and I don't hold back. I display this through tonality and delivery. To me, a man who has the balls to go direct is a man who sees something he wants and goes for it. He is not concerned about the outcome and is willing to put his ego on the line to give her value.

3. I don't break eye contact. She needs to know I'm not full of shit.

4. I always stay positive.

5. I'm congruent with my opener. Meaning, I am that man who sees something he likes and goes for it. I don't hold back and I don't stop escalating (Escalating in day time is different from escalating at night).

I'm not as afraid to go direct in night game, because most people have drunk some extent of alcohol and most likely they'll forget what you've said to them. So even if you mess up, no one cares, less of all me. We have an event called Scrub-Crawl coming up (for which case I'm going to use some of the DHV mymeowcat posted - the medical student event opener) and I'm even keen to go direct in some of the bars or clubs we go to, because there's less chance people will remember what you said and less chance people will overhear what you say.

However, in day game, I'm sort of scared of going direct because it seems a bit more... socially awkward. For which I'm wondering if any of you guys could help me out because I'm a total newbie at this and I keep hitting a dead end.

I tried going direct once on a girl on a bus: "Hi, I couldn't help noticing you from over there and I just had to come over and say you look absolutely adorable". She just blushed and said, "Oh um... thank you." And then an awkward silence followed and I didn't know how to continue from there. From then on, I just looked like an idiot sitting next to her on a bus. And that was actually a warm response. 6 out of 7 times they responded with a cold stare and responded with a word or two and then continued looking out the window. Perhaps it was due to lack of experience, because I'm sure Mike and other expert day-gamers, you would've known what to do, but I sure didn't. I even tried going indirect, and it works for a while until I beat around the bush a bit too long and then the responses are closed, short and curt, like what happens when I go direct.

I mean, I could continue the conversation if she said something. Even if she said she already has a boyfriend (In which, I'll just say "Whoa whoa, slow down. I didn't say anything yet. Hi, I'm Edwin. I'm an international student studying at Flinders. I just want to get to know you a bit and possibly be friends. Is that okay with you?). Even racist comments about Chinese/Asian people in general would be better than nothing because at least I have something I can bite to continue on. But the worst kind of response is if she just replies with a one-phrase/one-word, closed end answer that kind of just destroys the conversation like "Oh, thank you" or "Uh huh/Mm-hmm" Or "yes/no." I know it's my responsibility to try to open the conversation and keep her entertained by making her laugh and finding out what she enjoys talking about, but if she just keeps closing off the conversation like that, a newbie like me will just keep hitting a brick wall. And I get a lot of these closed end responses more often than not and I'm starting to think it's me that's the problem. I mean, I smile, I keep a positive attitude, and I try to keep myself expressive. So I'm not sure where I'm going wrong. And I know sometimes shit happens and you have to not let it bother you and keep grinding and moving on. But for a beginner, that's pretty hard and if I don't get at least some warmer responses, I'll have my confidence completely destroyed... again.

So... Any advice?